I was looking at the Trio Autopilot website (no joy for me, I have an A Model) and noticing that, like many aviation products, they have a Certificated version and an Experimental version. My current mental model for MOSAIC is that IF it encompasses our 170s, that our planes will retain their standard airworthiness certs and the major change will be in the pilot medical requirements and operating limitations due to medical in use for each op.
However, I wonder if I am correct? An LSA kitbuilder has the experimental flexibility to use experimental parts/systems, I believe. An SLSA built at a factory cannot be modified at will by the owner. However, when several models of pre-existing planes became "LSA Eligible", like some pre-existing Cubs, Champs, Citabrias, etc. were they able to use any upgrades that were for Experimental aircraft only, or did they have to stick to Certificated parts/systems to retain their standard airworthiness certificates. IOW, did they have an option to go to LSA-experimental status?
I have no idea if the final rule will allow our planes to be flown as certificated aircraft with different pilot medical requirements, or if it will offer the owner an option to move to some LSA-like status and change the basic rules of how we currently address continued airworthiness? I SUSPECT that even if the latter were true, many or most of us would choose to maintain the Standard Airworthiness Certificate as a value in eventual re-sale.
Any thoughts or insights?
Effect of MOSAIC on maintenance and upgrades to 170's
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
- BWeathered
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- Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:34 am
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10410
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Re: Effect of MOSAIC on maintenance and upgrades to 170's
MOSAIC and and any change it might have to what airplane a person exercising Sport Pilot privileges can fly has nothing to do what category a airplane is certified and what parts or who can maintain them.
Here are the Aircraft Certification categories as defined by the FAA:
Standard Airworthiness Certification Categories:
Aerobatic: An aircraft capable of performing aerobatic flight with limited restrictions, with a maximum of 9 seats plus the pilot and a weight limit of 12,500 pounds.
Commuter: A multi-engine propeller aircraft for transporting up to 19 passengers, with a weight limit under 19,000 pounds.
Normal: An aircraft not approved for aerobatic flight, with a capacity of 9 or fewer passengers and a maximum takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds.
Transport: An aircraft with varying seating and weight criteria based on engine type, with jet engine transports rated for more than 10 seats and over 12,500 pounds and piston engine transports capable of carrying up to 19 people and weighing more than 19,000 pounds.
Utility: An aircraft with a maximum of 9 passenger seats plus pilot seats, weighing up to 12,500 pounds, and authorized for limited aerobatic maneuvers.
Special Airworthiness Certification Categories:
Experimental: A category covering a wide range of aircraft, including kit-built, amateur-built, unmanned, light sport, research and development, and air racing projects.
Light Sport (LSA): A category for sport aircraft that do not fall under gyroplane, kit-built, or ultralight categories.
Limited: A category for military aircraft modified or converted for civilian use.
Primary: A category for aircraft manufactured with a production certificate and intended for personal use. The carrying of persons or property for hire is generally prohibited for this category.
Provisional: A category for aircraft certified for a limited duration, with Class I certifications valid for 24 months and Class II for 12 months.
Restricted: A category for aircraft built for specific purposes, such as agriculture, conservation, surveying, weather control, or advertising, and can only be used for their designated purpose.
All aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate must use approved parts and be worked on by an approved person. Aircraft with a special Airworthiness certificate may use any part and be worked on by anyone but some must use approved parts and be maintained by certified people.
If MOSAIC goes through as it is rumored to be written currently a person exercising Sport Pilot privileges will be able to fly a 170 but only within the limits of the Sport Pilot rule. They will not be able to fly a 170 in anything other that VFR and that VFR MUST be more that 1000ft and 3 miles unlike a Private Pilot or higher and they can't fly at night either. And as I under stand it MOSAIC may not allow them to fly with more than one passenger not matter how many seats. MOSAIC will not change how and who may maintain a 170
Here are the Aircraft Certification categories as defined by the FAA:
Standard Airworthiness Certification Categories:
Aerobatic: An aircraft capable of performing aerobatic flight with limited restrictions, with a maximum of 9 seats plus the pilot and a weight limit of 12,500 pounds.
Commuter: A multi-engine propeller aircraft for transporting up to 19 passengers, with a weight limit under 19,000 pounds.
Normal: An aircraft not approved for aerobatic flight, with a capacity of 9 or fewer passengers and a maximum takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds.
Transport: An aircraft with varying seating and weight criteria based on engine type, with jet engine transports rated for more than 10 seats and over 12,500 pounds and piston engine transports capable of carrying up to 19 people and weighing more than 19,000 pounds.
Utility: An aircraft with a maximum of 9 passenger seats plus pilot seats, weighing up to 12,500 pounds, and authorized for limited aerobatic maneuvers.
Special Airworthiness Certification Categories:
Experimental: A category covering a wide range of aircraft, including kit-built, amateur-built, unmanned, light sport, research and development, and air racing projects.
Light Sport (LSA): A category for sport aircraft that do not fall under gyroplane, kit-built, or ultralight categories.
Limited: A category for military aircraft modified or converted for civilian use.
Primary: A category for aircraft manufactured with a production certificate and intended for personal use. The carrying of persons or property for hire is generally prohibited for this category.
Provisional: A category for aircraft certified for a limited duration, with Class I certifications valid for 24 months and Class II for 12 months.
Restricted: A category for aircraft built for specific purposes, such as agriculture, conservation, surveying, weather control, or advertising, and can only be used for their designated purpose.
All aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate must use approved parts and be worked on by an approved person. Aircraft with a special Airworthiness certificate may use any part and be worked on by anyone but some must use approved parts and be maintained by certified people.
If MOSAIC goes through as it is rumored to be written currently a person exercising Sport Pilot privileges will be able to fly a 170 but only within the limits of the Sport Pilot rule. They will not be able to fly a 170 in anything other that VFR and that VFR MUST be more that 1000ft and 3 miles unlike a Private Pilot or higher and they can't fly at night either. And as I under stand it MOSAIC may not allow them to fly with more than one passenger not matter how many seats. MOSAIC will not change how and who may maintain a 170
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
- BWeathered
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:34 am
Re: Effect of MOSAIC on maintenance and upgrades to 170's
Bruce, that is what I thought. I should have stopped at the end of my first paragraph and been content with a rant about product pricing between identical products that are labeled experimental only vs certificated only. However, it's good to be reminded that it was the Sport pilot rules that allowed drivers license medical cert., and not the LSA definition. Clearly now, no pre-existing aircraft (the LSA-eligible cubs, champs, etc.) had to change airworthiness certifications because the sport pilot regs "Allow sport pilots to fly vintage and production aircraft (standard airworthiness certificate) that meet the definition of a light sport aircraft." And without an Airworthiness Cert change, those "experimental only" system remain out of reach for us.
Good to get the thinking right and I hope that rule comes out eventually!
Thanks, Brent
Good to get the thinking right and I hope that rule comes out eventually!
Thanks, Brent
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