BIG TAIL-WHEEL

[buchanan]

I had a Gar-Aero tail wheel on my Super Cub. I took it off and installed it on my 170-B. I have the STC for the Cub and I know it is STC’d for the 170. I called, wrote etc. to Gary at Gar-Aero in an attempt to get / obtain / buy a STC for the 170 with NO luck. The local FISDO turned down a field approval; for what reason is beyond me. Does anyone have any ideas? BTW a big tail wheel ranks right up there with tail pull handles and the Sportsman STOL kit in the mods department, at least in my opinion. It REALLY smoothes out at rough or rocky strip.

Buck

[kimble]

Buck,

Your request for a field approval was probably turned down because the FAA does not grant a field approval on an STC'd installation.

Approach the problem by wanting to install a PMA'd part on your aircraft and see what happens. Changing maintenance inspectors can also make a difference. A 337 showing the installation on another 170 can be utalized as a basis for approval.

Avoid STC'd and field approval in the same context, it is poison and is deadly to the project.

Ralph

[N3243A]

The Gar-Aero fat tailwheel is NOT STC'd for any Cessna airplane. They are all installed by field approval. Only the Alaska Bushwheel fat tailwheel is currently STC'd for the 170 and is better quality in my opinion. However, the bushwheel STC requires installation of 26" tires on the mains for their fat tailwheel to be installed. These 26" tires do not have to be Bushwheels. I agree that they are good thing in soft and rocky conditions.

Bruce

[buchanan]

Thanks Ralph and Bruce,

I’d have sworn the 170 was listed on the Cub STC but, I have been wrong before. I’ll look in my Cub paperwork. My 170 paperwork is at the mechanics.

SOOOOOO………….Does any one “out there” have any documentation that would help me get an approval? I’m annualing it now here in MT and the next annual will be in Fairbanks so maybe a field approval will be easier up there. It was the Helena FISDO that turned me down.

Thanks, Buck

[kimble]

Buck,

I have had good luck dealing with the Rapid City FSDO, but that was some years ago.

You probably said the key word "Alaska". That is probably your best bet.

Keep trying, the right person and the right approach can work wonders.

Ralph

[munro]

I was able to get gar aero approved last fall on a 180. I am in homer and my inspector was unfamiliar with the gar aero's but after walking him around the ramp and showing a number of installations he was most reasonable and granted it. (after consultation in anchorage). Find another 170 with such approval, get copy of 337 and have your IA go through the hoops. Should work.

[buchanan]

Hello Munro,

My next annual will be in Fairbanks. Do you suppose you could send me a copy of the 337 you have? I'd gladly reimburse you for your time.

If so I'll PM you with my address.

Thanks, Buck

[munro]

OK

On the ramp here there are gar aero tailwheels on the following cessna's

170B N1989C

180's N61792, N3186D, N396TC


Good luck,

I hope they are approved.

[buchanan]

THANKS MUCH MARK!!!

I'll prospect the FAA with those numbers. The 170 first.

Buck

[GAHorn]

Buck, I think you were on the right track when you wanted a sample 337 of an approved installation. You'd certainly run the risk of having those guys mad at you if you bring the FAA's attention to their aircraft. IMHO

[buchanan]

George,

I was thinking of just asking FAA for the 337's and field approvals for the airplanes Munro listed. If that is possible, and if so does anyone have any hints. The owners wouldn't know there airplanes were being "searched".

I agree it would be nice if someone would volunteer their "paper-work"....
Munro???

I'm installing all new cables in my 170 and I have found perserverence and patience pay off .................... along with a "few" bad words. I guess it is applicable to field approvals as well.

Best............Buck

[munro]

Its not a big deal to request records of others aircraft.

It is public information, will not instigate an investigation, costs 5$, done on internet at click of a mouse, owners do not know of it and have no reason to be concerned.

I have done it dozens of times.

Not a big deal.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

OK Buck picture this. You decided you didn't need any 337 for some wiz bang gadget you just installed on your aircraft. Seems you thought it was a minor alteration.

I saw your plane and liked the wiz bang alterations and called the FAA and somehow got their cooperation in reviewing your paperwork in order to find the 337 you must have had approved. Woops.

I wouldn't have many friends for long cause I like wiz bang alterations.

BTW besides alerting the FAA that there may be an aircraft with unauthorized modifications I doubt you'd ever see any paperwork on the plane. After all if there is paperwork it is owned by the aircraft owner.

[GAHorn]

One can purchase a complete copy of an aircraft's records, as munro mentioned, without any difficulty. (and I don't believe the $5 figure is correct....I believe they charge a minimum fee PLUS additonal fees for each page. I've personally researched aircraft I was interested in buying and have paid as much as $50 per airplane because some airplanes have so much in their FAA files. The FAA would not research and pull out a single document in a plane's file, but would only send the complete file-set for me to ponder.) But .... there's no guarantee that the tailwheel mod was documented and you'd have blown your money on aircraft records of no use to you, and... even if the aircraft HAD documented the mod,...you'd have purchased records that have a high probability of not being applicable to getting YOUR aircraft similarly approved. The list of aircraft previously mentioned included several 180's. Mods on a 180 are NOT applicable to a 170. The C-170 mentioned must also be the EXACT same model 170 (such as a ragwing/A or B model) as your own aircraft to be "acceptable" data for your similar modification.
In other words, this would be the LEAST likely document search to give you satisfactory results.
The best method is to simply be a TIC170A member and ask Velvet ( headquarters@cessna170.org ) for a copy of such 337s on other member's aircraft...or lacking that...go directly to the owner of an exact-same model 170 as your own and talk them into giving you a copy.

[munro]

I got the records of an aircraft three weeks ago and it was 5$. This for a CD that you can print what you like from. Paper copies are indeed more $$$.

The 170 I listed is a B model and I did get a chance to look at the books some months ago. I think I recall seeing a 337 for the tailwheel but would not stake my reputation on it. This aircraft also had the gar aero main tires on it.

If the cessna association has a copy of a 337 what are we jabbering about.
Get it there.

Ordering these records you are not dealing with FSDO inspectors. File personel.