Takeoffs

varr · Post by **varr** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:43 am

Looking to purchase a 170 B.
Wanting to work off a 1300 ft strip with no obstructions, like to carry
me my wife and two small kids.
What would I need to do to make it off with out HP upgrade?
Can a horton stol kit help?
All info would be apprecated
thanks varr

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:32 am

What is your field elevation?

What kind of temperatures can you expect during the time of the year that you expect to be flying?

Density altitude is what you have to work with.

Check your POH for expected take off performance.

At gross weight, 1300 ft. would certainly be very iffy on summer days and
quite different on a cold winter day. Your propeller pitch will also be a significant factor. An 8042 might be quite capable where a 7655 would be a disaster.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:41 am

According to the Approved Flight Manual, the 170B at gross wt (2200 lbs) on a standard day at sea level will require 1820 feet to clear a 50' obstacle. The ground run will be 40% of that, or 728 feet.
If 20 degrees of flap is used, the total distance to clear 50' is 1625 with a ground run of 618 feet (38%.)
At 100 degrees Fahrenheit it will require 2050' to clear the obstacle using 820' of ground run, or if using 20-degrees flaps 1995' to clear and 759' of ground run.
This is using a standard McCauley 7653 prop.

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:46 am

My 170 has a Horton STOL kit and the stock O-300 engine. I'm sure the STOL kit shortens the takeoff roll, but there's no way to know how much except by trying it yourself and comparing. That's because the manufacturer doesn't provide any data except to say the aircraft will perform at least as well with the kit as Cessna claims for the stock aircraft.

Best Regards,

John

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:25 pm

would i dare suggest
considering a Maule?
or would this be
170 treachery?
iowa

flat country pilot · Post by **flat country pilot** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:48 pm

I operate from a 2200' strip that ends with 50' trees on one end, 1910' MSL. My 170B is 1280lbs empty and stock engine. Full fuel and one other adult is no problem, depending on the size of the adult and the day. But add even one child and I go to my local airport 3.5 miles away.

My plane would clear the obstacle with a third passenger, but for me its not a risk worth taking. If anything gos wrong we may end up in my living room. What can go wrong? Engine failure, pilot error, or most likely wildlife on my runway (deer, rabbits, pheasants, geese)

In my plane I can do a 1300' strip comfortably and confidently. But I would not take your wife and 2 kids with me comfortably and confidently. Too much valuable cargo at risk.

Bill

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:51 pm

Numbers are great and should be considered but reality is best. BL gave the best advice in that it depends on a lot of things. Experience of the pilot was not mentioned by BL but should also be taken into consideration when looking to operate near the edge of the envelope

An Alaska veteran wishes he had 1800 ft with clear paths to lift his pacs and a mouse while a student couldn't see landing or departing with less than 3000 ft.

So we need a little bit more info as BL has said.

As for the STOL or VGs my opinion in this case is that they would give the pilot the confidence to do what the plane might already be capable of doing.

Robert Eilers · Post by **Robert Eilers** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:41 pm

My experience has been that the difference in takeoff and climb performance between less than 2000 lbs and 2000 + is significant. Operating around 2000 lbs I can get take off and climb performance from the 170 similar to that of a lightly loaded Champ. I have not found the need for a stol kit or vortex generators. The continental 145 is a great little engine - you just need to recognize the limitations and plan your weight & balance based on field/temps/obstacles/departure path.

dacker · Post by **dacker** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:47 pm

I think Bill hit on the most important factor... the cargo! Remember that the rear seat and restraints aren't exactly the best out there. The strip I would operate out of with just me or another adult is no where near as long as the strip I operate out of with my children.

Generally, your ground roll will be quite a bit less than 1300 ft for takeoffs or landings, but if you don't have an over run, thinks might get a bit hairy at times.

David

varr · Post by **varr** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:00 am

oK i SEE ALOT OF DIFFERENT opnions . hers some more info on my strip. I at 300ft asl , tallest obstical is about 7ft at 1400ft. I have
flown cubs to airtractors .
I have a friend that just bought a 170A stock and I played with it
the best i could get out of it was 850 ft with full fuel and 500lbs of payload. had a 15 mph cross at about 70degrees. dragging it off at 45
indicated airspeed.
Varr

or170B · Post by **or170B** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:04 am

Hi Varr, welcom to the 170 site. The C 170 is a great airplane, but a steller performer in stock form it is not. I would recomend against a 170 for your application unless it had a bigger motor. For the same money or less you could buy a 180hp Maul and it would do the job you are asking for and then some. We can get into a big discussion about the pros and cons of the different planes but the bottom line is that you should pick your plane for the job that you need done. Sometimes the stock 170 is not the right plane.

Joe Moilanen · Post by **Joe Moilanen** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:18 am

My strip is at 700'MSL and 650' long. 300' from the departure end, it has some trees that are about 10 feet above the level of the departure end of the strip. The second half of the strip has a pretty good downhill to it and I have a 8043 prop. I only use it with 1/4 fuel and myself only when conditions are right.

Joe 4518C

Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:58 pm

Varr

What you have experienced with the borrowed plane seems about right. If the plane didn't have a climb prop, normally a 51' pitch you could improve on that a little bit. And of course as you know you could reduce the 4.5 hours (full fuel) of fuel load you where carrying.

Will the cross wind be the norm or the worst case scenario? Better winds will just make it better but you know this.

I have VGs. I can tell you that with them you will not leave the ground any quicker, at least that I care to say, but when you do drag it off at stall speed it will feel very comfortable and natural on the controls.

dacker · Post by **dacker** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:46 pm

Varr, if you don't have ANY obstacles, and you truly only have ground roll to worry about, then you shouldn't have any problems. If you have any obstacles then pay close attention to your book numbers and give yourself plenty of cushion. This isn't necessarily a skill level thing as much as it is a performance thing. As I said before, ground roll should come in well under 1000' with good approach speed management. I typiically see about 700-800' to a stop from over the fence (not a 50' obstacle), and about the same for take-off (these are just conservative guesstimates).
David

varr · Post by **varr** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:06 am

do you have to get an stc for the 80" prop and what brand of prop?
I have heard that there was a 175hp 0300 has any one heard of this
varr

The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Takeoffs

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