Vortex Generators

N2782C · Post by **N2782C** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 pm

Anybody have any experience flying their 170 with VG's installed? I would like to hear some comments on how it flew before and after. I did it on my C-150 and it made a tremedous difference in the slow flight regime and power on stall regime.

Thanks,

N2782C

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:56 pm

Yes there has been much written about VGs and other stall kits as well. Doing a search will find the threads.

I have them and like them and I don't have to say that because I didn't buy them. They where won as a door prize.

They are not for everybody and they don't perform miracles.

If you liked them and what they did on a 150 then I'll bet you'll like them on your 170 as well.

53B · Post by **53B** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:56 am

I put them on my 172 conversion just last month. I like them but I don't think they were worth that much money for the way I use the airplane. I could have bought a lot of avgas and still been having fun.

We put them on our 180 horse Super Cub and there was a much more noticeable change in flight characteristics. I thought that the same improvements would be nice but they're not quite the same.

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:48 am

It seems that a good many guys have tried VGs on various cessna wings and have been disappointed in the results. The consensus of their opinions is that the results were definitely not worth the money.
They seem to have a much greater effect on Piper wings than on Cessna single engine wings.
The one guy I know that installed them on a C-170 said the VGs installed on the tail did give him better elevator authority to a lower speed.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:31 pm

BL I concur about the VGs in the tail.

As for the wing they do work. Perhaps better on other wing designs. Are they worth it?

Lets review.

Bartone/Benhem exhaust might reduce cabin sound and some say you go faster. They definitaly move the exhaust stain from the cowl to the belly. Cost ?

Wheel pants. And of course we'd only want a pristine set that we really wold want to get mud on.

Might make you go faster? Cost $1200 -$1500 and up.

GPS, no a moving map GPS, with XM weather. CHT, EGT, Carb Temp, big tires, little tires, lady legs, no 180 gear, big engines, little engines, MOGAS, MMO.

See where I'm going with this.

Only the individual owner can say if it's worth it.

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:58 pm

I'm an individual owner. It's not worth the ugly look or the money. VG's are for sissies.

(it was a j o k e !)
Bruce, I'm thinking VG's should be discounted at the fly out spot-landing contest this year. What do you think?

http://home.comcast.net/~bfenster/ShortLandingChamp.wmv
(Do VG's work? Or is it pilot proficiency?)

N2782C · Post by **N2782C** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:11 pm

Thanks guys for your input. I also know that it's more the pilot than the additions to an airplane that generally make it do what you want or need. I owned a C-180 for about 5 years and still fly one regularily back in the midwest and it was a STOL airplane as it was made originally right from the factory....really didn't need anything added to it to help it perform. Sometimes, it seems, we just can't pass up something that promises more performance.

As a 180 driver with an 0-520 and Robertson STOL kit (complete) told me today...the 170, flown by someone who can truly fly it, will get in and out of almost anyplace a 180 can...probably true.

Thanks again,

JT

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:53 pm

Yes, it's pretty hard to beat horsepower when it comes to performance. My normally aspirated 206 would get off the ground after 300' and clear 100' trees in 700' with no mods whatever when it was light. Heavy it took almost 1100' to do the same thing.

Larry Holtz · Post by **Larry Holtz** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:21 am

Hi All

I was at the Skaget Tullup Festival flyin on saterday helping man the Angel Flight booth. Next to us was a PA-18A with VGs. I told the fellow I spent a lot of hours in one of those planes cruising a couple of feet above grain and alfalfa fields way back in another life. He asked if I had VGs on my present plane and I said my ragwing 170 wasnt cerified. He then introduced himself as Chuck White, of Micro Aeodynamics. He said to bring it on over to Anacortes next winter and leave it for a couple of weeks. He would us it for cerification and give me the VGs.
I've searched this site and don't see much negative input. Bruce seems to have the most experience with them.
Another plus is that ragwings would be ceritfied.
Input anyone?

Larry

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:25 am

What could it hurt? You'd be helping some ragwing owners, you'd get to have some interesting fun, and we'd all learn something. Go for it!

pojawis · Post by **pojawis** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:33 am

Sounds like magnanimous offer. Would he remove them & restore the surfaces if you didn't like them?

Tue May 01, 2007 11:18 am

Larry

First a couple of questions about your plane and how you care for it.

Do you wash it on a regular bases? Do you scrape ice of the wings to fly in the winter? Do you use a wing cover? If so the VGs can be a pain as you need to be a little careful around them. Not only because you don't want to knock them off but they are sharp and can do a number to a wrist, arm or cover passing over then. Do you mind looking at your wing and seeing little VGs stuck to it? If so don't do it.

Here is the risk as I see it. If you install them and decide you don't want them. They can be removed fairly easily but the glue will remove the paint under them in most cases. Depending on your paint and your talent to repair it that might not be such a big deal or it might be a real pain ($$$).

If you can live with all I've pointed out and have no expectations of what they might accomplish for you then I'd be rushing to take advantage of the offer.

If they do for you what they've done for my plane in slow flight I think you'll be happy specially for nearly no cost other that what I've pointed out. I'll bet they may do even more as you don't have the big B model flap to help create more lift in slow flight.

And as you've pointed out they will be certified for the rest of the '48s.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:27 pm

You'll be doing a favor for all the other ragwing owners with original wings. You'll make theirs worth more.

(Just kidding!....couldn't resist)

More seriously, consider what kind of airplane you'd be looking for should you be in the market to buy a straight 170. ?

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:44 pm

gahorn wrote:More seriously, consider what kind of airplane you'd be looking for should you be in the market to buy a straight 170. ?

Or perhaps he should make the plane do more of what he wants now and add the VGs.

The next owner can remove them if they wish.

Of course Larry never said he was trying to accomplish anything with his aircraft whether that be fly slow or win an originality show.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:55 pm

That's actually my point . If he has no particular goal in mind,...then why alter the airplane unless it adds value. I could be wrong, but I don't think VGs add any value and for some potential owners they detract. (You'll have to repair the paint or reskin the wings.)