Lockheed-Martin FSS

[Robert Eilers]

We are experiencing a degradation in service at the Lockheed-Martin Oakland Automated International FSS. I noticed a distinct change in attitude following the transfer to Lockheed-Martin and service seems to be growing worse over time. For example, this morning at 0700 hrs (PDT)the recorded weather was from yesterday at 1345 (PDT). Often the recorded weather is not available until 0800 hrs or later. I find it more and more difficult to get through to a briefer within a reasonable period of time. In fairness, I do still get a good briefer now and then who works hard to provide me a comprehensive briefing. The service is just not what it was - kind of a dismal forcast (no pun intended) of things to come.

[N2865C]

I haven't had any more trouble getting connected than normal lately, but I also have noticed a real change in the briefer's. They have all been pleasant, but some of the briefings seemed kind of amateurish, not the crisp professional ones I was used to getting from Oakland. Most of the time I use Duats (at enflight.com ), so it doesn't really affect me that much.

[tshort]

Ditto on all the above.
I have been waiting lots longer than before, and the briefers are different; from Indy I always talked with Terre Haute; now I get Dayton or Kankakee (not that it makes a huge difference here in the midwest).
The briefers seem less sure of themselves, and are reluctant to give "abbreviated" briefings - my main use of FSS is a quick call before a local flight to check TFRs and NOTAMs ... for some reason, they still want to give me the winds aloft and all kinds of other data even though I tell them I don't need it.

T.

[aturner]

I filed an instrument flight plan a couple of weeks ago, apparently during or soon after the changeover. I called FSS for a clearance (no tower or RCO at Clarion), and went through this mildly comical routine - each briefer said "I'm not the person to call", and gave me another number, which I would call, and the new briefer would say "Why are you calling me.......". This went on way too long - the fifth briefer came up with a clearance for me. Hopefully I now have a phone number that will work the next time I need a clearance, and hopefully they are more coordinated!

[theduckhunter]

Since Lockheed-Martin took over I have gotten much better service here in VA. We don't always get Leesburg but we get rolled over reasonably fast to the next closest FSS who has the shortest phone line wait. I fly a lot of IFR and in my oppinion the briefings have been professional and thorough.

[ken44]

Morning All, Tried to call FSS to file a few IFR plans. Waited almost 15 minutes. Finally got a briefer. Very polite and knowledgeable, an old head I would guess. He mentioned that a new computer system was just coming on line and the workers were experiencing MANY problems. He also stated that as more stations came on line their computer slowed down. I fly charters our of PDK on almost a daily basis and use FLIGHT PLAN.COM. It is FREE. We use in our operation daily. You get everything you need,weather,winds, notams,ect. You can file your flight plans with the click of a button. No, I don't have any connection to flightplan.com. Just wanted to let you all know about it's existance.
I'm a new member and have not yet found MY 170.
Ken Cooksey
Jasper, Ga

[blueldr]

F.Y.I. I was informed yesterday that the FSS at Rancho Murieta, CA, is closing down and the service will be combined at the Oakland,CA,FSS.
I really have a hard time understanding how that will improve service.

[voorheesh]

I believe Lockeed Martin is converting to a very few automated FSS to serve entire country. The transition will be awkward (ie RIU which is closing and displacing employees). When it is complete, pilots will communicate with specialists who could be at any of the FSS that remain. So if you are in CA you may talk to a specialist in VA. Your call will be routed to the next available. AOPA has given Lockeed Martin pretty good grades so far. If there are problems, you should contact AOPA and report specifics. As far as briefing formats are concerned, check the AIM which describes the protocol briefers and pilots should follow. The briefers are trained to follow this to a t. If you are annoyed by the FAA procedures, you might want to consider that the FAA gets sued on a regular basis when pilots have WX related accidents and their surviving families' lawyers come to believe that the pilot received an incomplete or improper briefing from a government source. Lockeed Martin is a contractor to the FAA providing a government service. I fly in central and N. Calif and I have not had a single problem with a wx briefing in the past several months.

[thammer]

I usually talk to the Green Bay FSS. This sunday the 22nd was their last day. I talked to a briefer who had 29 minutes left. I've always gotten good briefs from those guys, they also know the areas they cover. Monday the 23rd I talked to a Lockheed Martin briefer after ten minutes on hold. Never had to wait on GB FSS. Briefer had some learning issues with what he said was a new computer system, wasn't sure what data he needed from me to input into it. I had to tell him what I wanted twice. "N2180V, I'd like a standard weather briefing for a VFR flight from C04 to ENW departing 1900Z." and i talk nice and slow so they can copy. Sounded like he had to search quite a bit to find out anything. Wasn't a good experience.

Too many lawyers involved in this nowadays. Too much CYA going on.

I'm looking forwards to the first time I file a lake reporting flight plan with these guys. Going to be a training event for them.

Tye

[doug8082a]

This consolidation of FSS is really worrisome. I'm sure we all fly in airspace that has its own unique features that are best interpreted by someone "local" who is familiar with them.

Here in southern New England, Bridgeport FSS is well versed in the weather patterns and various things that can crop up along the coast with little notice that are unique to this area. Weather conditions and VFR/IFR conditions can change quickly sometimes in very localized areas and the folks at Bridgeport have the experience to interpret the forecasts and its potential side effects when taking into account things like the Connecticut River Valley, Long Island Sound, the islands (Block, MV, Nantucket), Cape Cod, etc.. That abililty is gained through experience of the geographic area and local knowledge and is not something that an FSS briefer in, say Virginia, will be able to do.

The briefers aren't always right, but they are better than someone with no knowledge of the area. Occasionally I've been redirected to Burlington (VT) FSS (almost 300 sm away) and even though they are in New England as well, they were not able to provide as thorough a weather synopsis for my area as the folks at Bridgeport.

If/when Bridgeport is consolidated elsewhere pilots in the NYC/southern N.E. area will lose a valuable resource. All this just points to the fact that we as pilots need to stay on top of our own abilities to read the weather. That is something we all should be doing already and if we continue to lose local FSS support then the need for the skill becomes even more important. Of course a Garmin 396 with the subscription for realtime weather ain't a bad option either... I'm sure we all have one of those already, right ?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

If I'm not mistaken the plane is to consolidate down to 4 Flight Service Stations.

I can't remember the last time I called a briefer. Yes I do it was when we first started getting Williamsport PA FSS instead of Millville, NJ who read me the exact weather I was looking at on the computer screen.

Told me there was no way I was flying VFR because the ceiling wasn't going higher than the current 700 ft. He had no clue what we did in helicopters in the NYC area. The guy from Millville wasn't from the NYC area but at least he new we WERE going to fly helicopters in the BAD BAD 700 ft ceiling weather and was familiar with an ocean and had seen the sea fog Doug talked about roll in. After reading the official weather the more experienced briefers would always add what they'd seen happen in the same circumstances over the last 20 years.

It's to late at this point but this is just another loss of service that will compromise safety for GA. Won't effect the big iron cause their not landing in the Hamptons or Bridgeport.

[jrenwick]

Local knowledge is wonderful, but it's really a hindrance. Once you've got everything switched over and nobody depends on local knowledge at the FSS any more (because it doesn't exist), it's easy to outsource the whole thing to a subcontractor in, say, Bangalore. Imagine what that would do for the bottom line!

(In case anyone's sarcasm detector isn't flashing, please turn it on manually.)

[doug8082a]

Sarcasm noted... but as someone who works in the IT (Information Technology) world, your comment hits all too close to home. We have done exactly that. Some are in Bangalore (or elsewhere) and some are on site. The quality of the work is bottom tier, but hey, it's cheap! Cheap price, cheap work... I better stop now...

[GAHorn]

I can see it now..... The Fringe-factor.........LIVE ....with ...Mowry-in-the-Morning!

"How 'bout dem natty-haired Bo's"

[doug8082a]

thanks, but I like my job and I think I'll keep it. That slope could get real slippery real fast if I allow myself to go on much longer...