Lockheed-Martin failed to meet defense/homeland-security obligations, as well as failed to provide GA pilots vitally-required briefing information. What if someone had been shot down?
Lockheed-Martin is a sad case of the privatization of public resources, and another reason ATC must never be privatized.
Re: Federal Times - FAA, contractor under fire for shortfalls in system upgrades --- http://www.federaltimes.com/index.php
Privatization is bad business (opinion)
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
- GAHorn
- Posts: 21291
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
Privatization is bad business (opinion)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.

- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10418
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
George
I agree in this case
I think there are many things that should not be privatized. And that there are many things at which the government fails miserably and at great cost that might be privatized.
I'm not totally against privatization if it can be shown there is a reasonable expectation of success at reasonable cost.
What really worries me is that once privatized there will be no going back no matter how much of a failure short of a catastrophe of a large magnitude.
I agree in this case
I think there are many things that should not be privatized. And that there are many things at which the government fails miserably and at great cost that might be privatized.
I'm not totally against privatization if it can be shown there is a reasonable expectation of success at reasonable cost.
What really worries me is that once privatized there will be no going back no matter how much of a failure short of a catastrophe of a large magnitude.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
-
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 12:33 am
I think Bruce has placed his finger on the crux of the issue. For a while in the 1980s privatization of jails was the new trend - many counties across the country thought they could reduce their costs (and in my opinion pass off their responsibilities) by privatizing county jails. Time has demonstrated that public interest and individual needs are subrogated to meet profit and "bonus" requirements. When it became apparent that privatization of the jails was a bad idea counties were faced with the impossible task of hiring the staff and growing the management to replace private contractors - in most cases they found it fiscally impossible. The danger is once privatization has begun it is very difficult to reinstate a trained and competent county or federal personnel base.
- Bill Hart
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:04 pm
There was an article on AVWEB yesterday that I wanted to post here but it is not on the site now. It was how several pilots were busted for flying through a TFR and come to find out that they all had gotten briefs from Lockheed Martin and Lockheed failed to tell them about the TFR. The FEDS were kind enough to look into dropping the charges but as of the time these guys were still being charged.
Now while most of the time I will say privatization is a good thing. But I think this is one federal institution that should remain in the hands of public officials.
Now while most of the time I will say privatization is a good thing. But I think this is one federal institution that should remain in the hands of public officials.
- Bill Hart
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:04 pm
I found it. This is a reprint from AVWEB.
The FAA says it will likely clear the records of 12 pilots who violated a temporary flight restriction (TFR) near Camp David last weekend on their way to an antique fly-in at Hagerstown. According to the Federal Times, a Capitol Hill news magazine, the pilots may not have been told about the TFR when they checked for NOTAMs with flight service before heading to Hagerstown. "Generally, if we determine they were not properly briefed we don't take enforcement action," FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown told AVweb on the weekend. The Federal Times quoted Rep. Jerry Costello, D-Ill., the chairman of the House Aviation Subcommittee, as telling a hearing on the performance of flight service since its takeover by Lockheed Martin that the errant pilots in Maryland weren't told about the TFR because flight service lost their notification of it. "We can and must do better," Costello said.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command scrambled F-16s to intercept at least four of the aircraft, some of which did not have radios and couldn't be notified of their incursion that way. What followed was the usual verbal pat-down from Secret Service agents and the looming specter of sanctions by the FAA. Although Lockheed Martin has said recently it is doing better at providing the level of service it promised when taking over the system, an Office of Inspector General spokesman told the hearing the company missed 13 of 21 performance parameters when the takeover was completed in August.
The FAA says it will likely clear the records of 12 pilots who violated a temporary flight restriction (TFR) near Camp David last weekend on their way to an antique fly-in at Hagerstown. According to the Federal Times, a Capitol Hill news magazine, the pilots may not have been told about the TFR when they checked for NOTAMs with flight service before heading to Hagerstown. "Generally, if we determine they were not properly briefed we don't take enforcement action," FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown told AVweb on the weekend. The Federal Times quoted Rep. Jerry Costello, D-Ill., the chairman of the House Aviation Subcommittee, as telling a hearing on the performance of flight service since its takeover by Lockheed Martin that the errant pilots in Maryland weren't told about the TFR because flight service lost their notification of it. "We can and must do better," Costello said.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command scrambled F-16s to intercept at least four of the aircraft, some of which did not have radios and couldn't be notified of their incursion that way. What followed was the usual verbal pat-down from Secret Service agents and the looming specter of sanctions by the FAA. Although Lockheed Martin has said recently it is doing better at providing the level of service it promised when taking over the system, an Office of Inspector General spokesman told the hearing the company missed 13 of 21 performance parameters when the takeover was completed in August.
- GAHorn
- Posts: 21291
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
I cannot think of a single case where privatization has been a good thing.
It's nothing more than taking taxpayers dollars and funnelling them to a corporation who will skim off a big chunk of it (called Profit) and what's left over will be spent on providing minimal service.
Example: If schools are already hurting due to lack of money, how can skimming off a portion of it for some corporate profits , and leave a lesser amount left over to fund what was already under-funded, be an improvement?
Same thing for ATC: If ATC is already in dire need of funds, how can a corporation skim some off and better fund the system with less money?
Answer: They can't.
BUT... corporations CAN hire lobbyists who will get Congress to increase expenditures (and Profits) for the next round of funding/budgeting.
Bottom Line: The taxpayer will get less service, for more taxes, and a corporation will outsource those previously Amercian-jobs to INDIA. (Don't believe? Guess who has your Social Security account managment and information these days?)
In Texas, instead of improving highways that are becoming overcrowded, ...highways that are already owned by the taxpayer and occupying land already paid for by taxpayers years ago....our lovely guvnor and cronies have outsourced/privatized highway improvments and turning them into TOLL roads, and letting big corporations (their political contributors) manage the toll booths and get the construction contracts. Their labor comes from out-of-state (if not out-of-country.)
NO! to privatization. I cannot think of a single case where it has truly provided a benefit at lower cost.
It's nothing more than taking taxpayers dollars and funnelling them to a corporation who will skim off a big chunk of it (called Profit) and what's left over will be spent on providing minimal service.
Example: If schools are already hurting due to lack of money, how can skimming off a portion of it for some corporate profits , and leave a lesser amount left over to fund what was already under-funded, be an improvement?
Same thing for ATC: If ATC is already in dire need of funds, how can a corporation skim some off and better fund the system with less money?
Answer: They can't.
BUT... corporations CAN hire lobbyists who will get Congress to increase expenditures (and Profits) for the next round of funding/budgeting.
Bottom Line: The taxpayer will get less service, for more taxes, and a corporation will outsource those previously Amercian-jobs to INDIA. (Don't believe? Guess who has your Social Security account managment and information these days?)
In Texas, instead of improving highways that are becoming overcrowded, ...highways that are already owned by the taxpayer and occupying land already paid for by taxpayers years ago....our lovely guvnor and cronies have outsourced/privatized highway improvments and turning them into TOLL roads, and letting big corporations (their political contributors) manage the toll booths and get the construction contracts. Their labor comes from out-of-state (if not out-of-country.)

NO! to privatization. I cannot think of a single case where it has truly provided a benefit at lower cost.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.

Cessna® is a registered trademark of Textron Aviation, Inc. The International Cessna® 170 Association is an independent owners/operators association dedicated to C170 aircraft and early O-300-powered C172s. We are not affiliated with Cessna® or Textron Aviation, Inc. in any way.