Why Not ?

[4583C]

Can some of you airline types explain to me why we are not allowed to use a portable gps in the cabin of the large silver tubes. I don't know if the ban is industry wide or just the carriers I have used. There is a plethora of electronic gadgets entertaining folks in the cabin ... why is it a problem to know where we are and how fast we are going?

[KG]

I don't have the final answer but from what I understand some years ago there were a couple of "anomalies" that interfered with some navigation computers on a couple of airplanes. Since they couldn't locate the source, they just banned everything to make sure it never happened again.

In my humble opinion, a portable gps doesn't hurt anything. I've seen.... I mean I've heard of a friend who saw...... some guys with their portable gps units turned on in the cockpit. Never heard of any of them veering off course or crashing. But then again, unlike the passengers, we've got the bullet proof door to keep the flight attendants from yelling at us.

I actually did fly with a DC-8 Captain years ago who had rigged up a pigtail cord with a light bulb base and he would take out one of the cockpit map lights and plug in his portable gps. We flew all over the world with that thing on and never made the news.

Keith

[djbaker]

I've used a protable Garmin 396 on Delta, no hassle. The attendent did ask what it was once.

[N2865C]

Pre 9/11 I tried one out on a flight... Worked great. I would think that in this post 9/11 world it could be a great way to meet some big, unfriendly guys with guns and a lot of questions .

[jrenwick]

The restrictions on electronics in the cabin are aimed at minimizing stray RF radiation that might be picked up by the aircraft's avionics. Anything with a computer chip in it is a potential source of RF, because microprocessors are driven by clocks (digital oscillators) that operate in the RF range. And there's hardly anything with a battery any more that doesn't also have a microprocessor in it.

Electronic devices usually go through some engineering that measures RF radiation and corrects it before the design goes to manufacturing. I think this is particularly true of laptop computers, which might explain why we're allowed to use them in the air.

The common restriction against "anything with an antenna" may exist because an antenna is a path for RF to escape the device. GPS receivers have antennas. They shouldn't emit RF, but they might if the unit has been compromised in some way, like getting water inside it. The airlines obviously can't inspect consumer electronic devices to see if they're healthy.

At the same time, all the newer airliner designs contain very sophisticated techniques to prevent stray RF signals from being picked up by the aircraft wiring and avionics. Avionics probably also have to be certified that they aren't affected by some range of RF radiation below some power threshold.

The regulations forbidding use of electronics on board date back to a time when there were very few battery-powered devices that a passenger could use in flight, they were not very sophisticated, and neither were the aircraft systems. Everything has gotten much more complicated, and the old rules probably don't make a lot of sense any more -- but then, I defy anyone to come up with any set of rules that would guarantee the safe use of electronics on board and still be simple enough to follow and enforce. Fortunately the older, less-bulletproofed airliners are being retired, and its much less likely to be a problem with the newer ones. Good thing, because the airlines depend on business travel, and business travelers seem to have to use electronics when they fly!

[AR Dave]

Can you imagine 100 idiots talking on their phones from takeoff to landing? I do observe people using cell phones regularly on my commutes. Traci just forced text messaging on me, have to admit that it's handy at 30,000 ft....

[GAHorn]

Next time try asking the attendant to call the cockpit and ask the captain if it's OK to operate your portable GPS. I was on a Delta flight that the attendant asked the passenger beside me to turn his off, and when I suggested to the attendant to ask the captain...... the request was at first denied with a "We are not allowed to make exceptions" type of response.... but about 10 minutes later the lead attendant came by and authorized it.

[jrenwick]

Can you imagine 100 idiots talking on their phones from takeoff to landing? I do observe people using cell phones regularly on my commutes. Traci just forced text messaging on me, have to admit that it's handy at 30,000 ft....

The FAA has a rule about using electronic devices on aircraft, but the FCC also bans cell phone use. See http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html. It doesn't make any exception for text vs. voice.

[KG]

I just looked this up in our Flight Operations Manual (FOM) and it refers to FAR 121.306. I haven't taken the time to look that up to see exactly what the FAR says but our manual specifically prohibits the use of "electronic broadcasting or receiving devices, such as citizens band radios, GPS receivers, and transceivers".

So, at least at Airtran, the Captain has no discretion when it comes to GPS receivers. The Book says it is prohibited, therefore it is prohibited. Other airlines may have exemptions or different wording in their FOM.

Our manual goes on to say cell phones are approved for use when the plane is "parked at the gate and the passenger door is open, or after landing when clear of the runway"........ or at the discretion of the Captain "after the airplane has departed the gate and the door is shut if the airplane is stopped on a ramp or taxiway."

So, for us at least, the Captain has some authority over cell phone use but no option to authorize a GPS receiver.

(as a side note, I just noticed that "cochlear implants" are exempt from the rules in our FOM restricting electronic devices. I never would have even thought of those.)

Keith

[AR Dave]

Yeh I know, but I hide it under the blanket so I won't get caught. This text messaging is interesting, Traci actually sends a text to my email and I email her phone back when I'm at work. Of course the most usefull place is while flying in the 170. Wish I would've had it on that trip out west, the kids could've updated our location contiuously. She has the kids & I on group text, so she can send an all-call text out. The best thing is that I don't have to listen to the answering machine anymore, just text and go. We also cut our talking minutes which dropped our monthly bill $20.

Last time I was flying home this little grandmother, who hadn't used a cell phone much, called her grandaughter and reminded her she was on the way. I was able to shield the flight attendant's view when she came by and niether ever knew any different.

On commercial flights the GPS is treated the same as cell phones or any electronic device with an outside signal. However, I was told that Alaska Air is fixing to have wireless internet on the their flights.

PS - remember when the flight attendant would freak on you for having the window shade down (in the name of safety), now they freak on you for having it up (in the name of cost).

[GAHorn]

I wonder... did those folks on the hijacked airliners (911) know they were violating FARS?

[170C]

Just yesterday America Airlines indicated they are going to permit laptop users to connect the internet on some of their planes. I think it is a trial deal. Costs $12.50 per flight. Another way to bring in some needed cash I suppose. I personally don't have a problem with someone texting on their phone if it doesn't cause a problem with the aircraft systems, but I sure would hate to see them start permitting cell phone use for talking. Geeze, can you imagine Mr. Thinks He Is A Big Shot calling all his cronies or co-workers and spending the entire trip loud mouthing how important he is He might get it shoved down his throat Quiet a number of years ago (before 9-11) I was making trips to Boston fairly often for the company and on one or two trips I took my hand held transceiver along just to listen to the air-to-air. One flt attendant told me I couldn't use it, but after I asked her to check with the front office she too came back and said it was Ok as long as I didn't transmit. On another trip I took a portable GPS & on the way to Boston I just took out the antenna/suction cup and stuck it to a window and had a grand time watching were we were and at what speeds. No one ever questioned me. On the return trip an attendant saw what I was doing and she also asked the captain if it was a problem and he told her it was OK as long as the GPS wasn't on during the initial climb or descent--the same time that they now tell you that it is OK to turn on or turn off all electronic devices. I even used to enjoy watching the video from the AA DC-10's cockpit camera & listening w/ the headsets. Doesn't take a whole lot to entertain me

[Iceman07]

SWA's inflight magazine specifically permits the use of GPSs'.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

SWA's inflight magazine specifically permits the use of GPSs'.

Now there is a publication of authority if I ever saw one.

[GAHorn]

.... On another trip I took a portable GPS & on the way to Boston I just took out the antenna/suction cup and stuck it to a window and had a grand time watching were we were and at what speeds. No one ever questioned me. On the return trip an attendant saw what I was doing and she also asked the captain if it was a problem and he told her it was OK as long as the GPS wasn't on during the initial climb or descent--the same time that they now tell you that it is OK to turn on or turn off all electronic devices. I even used to enjoy watching the video from the AA DC-10's cockpit camera & listening w/ the headsets. Doesn't take a whole lot to entertain me

Ya know, Frank.... you oughtta go-ahead and get a pilot's license. Who knows? Some day you might even get over your fear of heights.