OT. I mean REALLY OT!

[GAHorn]

Well, I've sometimes wondered why some folks think this seems to be the place to ask goofy questions... but the fact is.... some of our participants seem to know the wierdest stuff! I expect Ol' GAr might have something to say about this.

Here's my thought for the day:

About 20 years ago (gawd....has it been 20 years already? ! !), I was flying for a company who frequently went to Denver. I had nothing to do for the three days we always spent there so I occupied my time in various ways. One day I was driving up past Georgetown and off a side road away from the highway I discovered a hole in the side of a mountain that had a rusty steel door padlocked shut. Ore-car tracks exited beneath the doors and a trickle of water contantly streamed out between the tracks. Judging by the dilapidated condition of the chain and lock and this place had obviously not been visited in decades. It was pretty remote. I couldn't resist.
I went back to town and bought some flashlights and returned to take a look. The padlock didn't even require much effort and it literally fell apart. I hid the car and entered the mine. I pulled the door closed behind me so no one passing would notice. It was a hard rock silver mine, I believe. The ore car tracks led me along a virtually level shaft about 4 feet wide and 8 feet high. The walls were hard, broken rock, with water barely moving along the ore car tracks about a half-inch deep. Occasionally an old ore car train would be sitting where it'd been parked decades before. I'd have to squeeze along beside the cars to pass. It was darn sure dark.
About 200 yards into the mine several laterals appeared and I followed them along for a ways, mostly to dead ends with vertical shafts. Some of them led to upper rooms which where empty. One or two of the verticals had air coming down them. At most, I'd walked about 1/2 mile into the mountain, and all I found were these different laterals and shafts. Each were about 5 feet wide by 8 feet high. The ore car system only ran thru the major ones. Along the walls would be found signs that had been scribbled in paint "Au-5%" or "Au-10%", which I assumed were assays.
I found some old wooden boxes which were open and contained several sticks of dynamite that had white crystals growing out of them. I figured it was deteriorated pretty good. They were resting in nice old wooden boxes labelled "Hercules" and "DuPont" and I wanted those old boxes. I found one completely empty, and took it back to Dallas with me, but the boys unloading and cleaning the airplane apparently considered it trash and when I returned later in the day, they'd either stolen my stolen box, or they'd thrown it away. I'll never know which.
After several hours in the mountain I decided it was time to leave and I'll never forget the intensely-building sense of claustrophobia I experienced as I worked my way back towards the entrance of the mine. I was walking along the tracks and made that final turn to the main shaft and away down there, about 200 yards away, was the tiny crack of light splitting in from the main metal door. It took several minutes stepping along the track-ties towards the light. With each splashing step closer, the light entering through the crack in the doors became brighter and brighter until, even though I was still several yards away, the light seemd almost blinding due to the contrast between that sunlit day on the other side and the intense darkness of that hole. I suddenly became aware that if anyone had come up to that door while I was deep inside the mountain, and if they'd secured it again closed .... and with my rental-car hidden, ... and with no one knowing where I was.... it could be years before.....
I virtually ran the last 20 yards, stumbling and splashing along the wet tracks, to get to that door!
I don't ever intend to go inside another mountain the rest of my life. I don't know how miners do it. It never bothered me until I came back to that point about 100 yds from leaving that mine. Then it was a compelling need to get out of there!

Here's my question: I was too scared to mess with the boxes that still contained the old dynamite so I didn't touch them. I was worried about handling them so I didn't. Does anyone have any idea how old dynamite is dispensed with and if there's a method to remove the dynamite safely? It looked pretty deteriorated with those white crystals growing out of them, and the boxes were dated from the 1930's.

[lowNslow]

Does anyone have any idea how old dynamite is dispensed with and if there's a method to remove the dynamite safely?

A match??

[GAHorn]

I wanted the boxes. A match will not take care of it and keep the boxes intact. I was wondering if drowning them in water or some other method might make them safe to handle. Dynamite is made from nitroglycerin and when it leaches out of old dynamite it's hazardous to handle because even a small shock will set off nitroglycerin. (The dynamite is only safe when handled if it's in good condition....for that takes a real "jolt" such as from a blasting cap. But when it's leaching out into crystalline or pure form, it can explode just by minor handling, just like/worse-than a bunch of loose kitchen matches. Several of them lying upon one another and the friction from moving them might cause an explosion, is what I've been told.)

[AKGrouch]

There is only one way that I know of......get an EOD specialist to do it. Any other attempt will likely result in your loved ones cashing in on any insurance. I also know of such a mine here in Alaska. We found several open cases of dynamite white crystals and oozing liquid!!!! (NITRO!!!!) The mine has been closed over 40 years too. We thought about the same thing as you and, since we were hunting, even thought of using a rifle to set it off. We then realized it might bring down half of that side of the mountain on top of us and the 206. We ended up thinking better about ourselves and chose to just leave it alone. We passed along what we had found to the U.S. Army as it was a remote area available only by air. What they did, if anything, is unknown. I just know I'm still here rather than up in smoke or buried under the mountain.

[lowNslow]

I'm surprised that anybody who owns a mine would leave TNT laying around. It seems it would be an extreme liability if some kids with not alot of common since or knowledge about nitro were to stumble on this stuff.

[Lucky]

Per my friend at EOD, the only acceptable method of dealing with destabilized dynamite is to use another explosive to detonate it in place. Touching or moving it in any way is a colossal no-no. To illustrate this he told me of a residence in rural Nevada he went to with a dozen boxes of weeping dynamite sitting in the garage. The homeowner, who had been getting a bit nervous about the situation, wasn't keen on having his house demolished with the ensuing detonation. So EOD taped a warning sign to the garage door and left. Far as he knows, the dynamite and the homeowner are still sitting side by side.

Probably a good thing you didn't tinker with the stuff...

[DaveF]

Wow, George, you must have been reckless in your youth. Old mine shafts are really dangerous, especially if the timbering has been neglected for a few years. Not only do mines collapse, but they have poisonous gases, vertical shafts, and old dynamite sitting around. And that's if you don't end up facing an angry claim owner. Buy a dynamite box on ebay!

[GAHorn]

.. Buy a dynamite box on ebay!

Awww.. that's not the same as being able to claim you hauled it outta the mine yourself! (I hate whoever stole the one I stole already.)

I would NOT have gone in that mine if it hadn't had a strong breeze of air coming out thru the main door, which indicated the air would likely be safe. One of the hazards of hard rock mines is radon gas (causes lung cancer) and low areas where carbon dioxide can "pool". You wouldn't know you were in a large pool of CO-2 until you got lightheaded and passed out to die. I'm NOT advocating folks trespassing and entering abandoned mines. In retrospect it was a foolish thing..... not the first foolish thing I've ever done.

I suspect that old dynamite is still there because that's the best place for it. And that's probably why they had a "Danger - Do Not Enter" sign on the locked/chained metal door. (and why I HAD to do it, of course.)

[Harold Holiman]

If it was anybody else that did this we would all wonder about them , but since it was you George, we understand .

Harold

[flyguy]

UZGOOFY UZ OL' GAR MITE BE HE WUNT MESS WITH OLE DYNOMYTE OR CRAUL ROUN IN "LOCKED" UP MINES. IMA NOT SPRIZED AT U U LEAGAL WANNA BE PILUT, BREAKIN AN ENTERIN, STEELIN, AN PLOTIN HOW TU STEEL MORE. IFN DEPITY HAD COME ON U U PROLLY WUD STIL BE IN THU POKEY. AN URE LUCK U AINT DED TOO.

Wow, George, you must have been reckless (STOOPID ISA BETER WORD) in your youth. Old mine shafts are really dangerous, especially if the timbering has been neglected for a few years. Not only do mines collapse, but they have poisonous gases, vertical shafts, and old dynamite sitting around. And that's if you don't end up facing an angry claim owner. Buy a dynamite box on ebay!

WHAT HE SAID " " " " " " " ^^^^^^^^^ " " " " " " "

WHEN I WAS A KID MY DAD MADE A "CLAIM" TO RE-OPEN, WHAT THEY CALL IN ARIZONA, A WORK-OVER MINE. THIS MINE PRODUCE HIGH GRADE COPPER.

THE HORIZONTAL OPENINGS IN THE SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN ARE CALLED TUNNELS AND THE OFF-SHOOTS ARE CALLED STOPES. SOME STOPES ARE VERTICAL UP FROM THE TUNNEL ROOF. IF THEY GO DOWN FROM THE TUNNEL FLOOR (OR OUTSIDE SURFACE) THEY ARE CALLED "SHAFTS". SOME STOPES GO UP OR DOWN TO THE NEXT "LEVEL" WHERE MORE TUNNELS AND STOPES BRANCH OUT. ALL THAT IS TO FOLLOW THE "VEINS" OF MINERAL DEPOSITS AND NOT HAVE TO MINE OUT TONS OF USELESS ROCK. MANY MINES IN THE WEST WERE ABANDONED BY OWNERS AFTER THE BEST VEINS WERE MINED OUT BUT SOME STILL HAD (HAVE) RECOVERABLE MINERALS.

ALL "ABANDONED " MINES FALL UNDER THE "U.S. MINE SAFETY" REGULATIONS AND THE REQUIREMENTS WERE TO MAKE IT IDIOT PROOF. BUT, AS WE SEE HERE IN THIS NARRATIVE, THAT IS NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE! . DAD'S MINE HAD A VERTICAL SHAFT ABOUT 100 FEET INTO THE TUNNEL AND THE MINE CAR TRACKS WERE BUILT ON A BRIDGE OF TIMBERING WEDGED INTO THE TOP RIM OF THE SHAFT. THE EDGES OF THE SHAFT WERE SOME WHAT UNSTABLE AND CRUMBLY DUE TO LOTS OF BLASTING IN THE LEVELS BELOW THE TUNNEL FLOOR. THAT SHAFT WAS OVER 400' DEEP AND THERE WAS A HOIST SHIV (WHEEL) BUILT INTO THE ROOF JUST ABOVE THE SHAFT TO HAUL THE ORE BUCKET UP FROM THE STOPES DOWN AT LEVELS 2 AND 3.

WHEN DAD REOPENED THE MINE, JUST AFTER WWII FINISHED, HE HAD TO BRING IN NEW TIMBERS TO REBUILD THE "BRIDGE" AND "TIMBER" THE TUNNEL ROOF. HE ALSO HAD TO LAY NEW TRACKS FOR HAULING THE ORE OUT TO THE TIPPLE (IN THEM CUTE LITTLE ORE CARS). IT WAS ALL OLD TIMEY MANUAL LABOR (EXCEPT FOR THE "LEROI" AIR COMPRESSOR JUST OUTSIDE THE TUNNEL MOUTH). THE OLD DONKEY ENGINE, USED FLAT LEATHER BELT DRIVES TO RUN THE HOIST. ALL THAT EQUIPMENT WAS PROBABLY 50 YEARS OLD WHEN DAD PUT IT BACK INTO SERVICE.

YES GEORGE - - YOU HAD SOME "DUMB" LUCK IN AVOIDING BEING VICTIM OF BOTH THE MINES DANGERS AS WELL AS THAT OF THE OLD DYNAMITE. GLAD YOU ARE HERE TO HARASS US INSTEAD OF BEING PASTED ON THE ROOF AND WALLS OF THAT TUNNEL!

[GAHorn]

...
YES GEORGE - - YOU HAD SOME "DUMB" LUCK IN AVOIDING BEING VICTIM OF BOTH THE MINES DANGERS AS WELL AS THAT OF THE OLD DYNAMITE. GLAD YOU ARE HERE TO HARASS US INSTEAD OF BEING PASTED ON THE ROOF AND WALLS OF THAT TUNNEL!

Foolish, perhaps. But not "dumb"... I'm telling you guys about it. (And I obviously wasn't the first person to go into that mountain. The tunnels weren't natural!)

Truthfully, one reason I retold the story was to give a general idea that it wasn't the smartest thing I'd ever done... kinda like being seen in public with Ol' Gar!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

... kinda like being seen in public with Ol' Gar!

Well George maybe you should have been spending more time around Ole Gar and you wouldn't have found your self in an abandon mine thinking about how to move leaching dynamite sticks.

[SteveF]

Then again Bruce it usually is dynamite when we see the two of them together. I think the suds they consume is to nullify their explosive combination.

[DaveF]

Just be careful when you visit up here George. We already have too many newspaper headlines that say "Texas Man Dies While (Skiing, Climbing, Hunting, Snowmobiling, Flying)"

[3958v]

Before any of you do this I must first say leaving dynamite handling to the professionals is by far the wisest thing to do. That said I was talking to an old friend who found some dynamite in an old barn they were dismanteling. One of the guys helping took pieces of the dynamite and threw it in the fire they had for burning scrap wood. He said nothing happened even when they threw pieces as large as a quarter stick in. Another guy I once talked to said he had entertained himself one afternoon shooting old dynamite sticks off the tops of fence posts with a 22. Apparently that did detonate it. Both these finds were almost 30 years ago and I know of no one finding it around anymore. Bill K