Recognition Lights

[wa4jr]

I was just wondering if anyone has seen a 170 with recognition lights...you know...the ones that pulse on and off. I see that a kit is offered in TAP to add these lights to some Piper singles, but nothing for the Cessna line. I always use my taxi light around high traffic areas, and after the next light burns out will be switching to the Q4509 for extended life, but I'd sure like to have smaller forward facing lights at each wing tip for for greater visibility. I know that whenever I see Southwest coming in with their pulsing taxi/landing lights, you sure take notice of them farther out on final. I have an article from a homebuilders magazine detailing how to build your own system...but then I don't want to explain to the friendly FAA man how those neat little lights came to be in my wings!

[David Laseter]

wa4jr - you're not talking about the pulsing wingtip strobes are you? I had these put on my plane and really like them. I don't know what recognition lights are but now at 170 fly-ins, you'll be able to recognize me!

[funseventy]

There is a guy that has a flasher system for all airplanes. It is advertised in the GA News and Flyer. It cost about 150 bucks and is very easy to install and only requires a logbook entry. I have it and love it! If you want the new style wingtips with extra rec. lights it will be expensive. Alaska Aircraft Sales in Anchorage, Alaska has that kit for Cessna's. Also remember that a flashing light lasts longer than one thats on all the time. I guess its because it never gets hot. I'll look for more information on my light, feel free to send me a message. Kelly

[zero.one.victor]

The pulsing landing lights do get your attention. Not a bad mod if you're worried about a mid-air. Instead of wing-tip recognition lights,I would just go with the pulser for your existing landing light. If ya want more,seems like a better deal would be to add a second leading-edge landing/taxi light assembly to the right wing and have both left & right pulsing. That would have the added advantage of more light when you need it for night operations. I assume that the pulsing can be disabled for night-time use?
I don't think I'd like the pulsing when I'm trying to find my way around a strange airport at night! ("peek-a-boo! hello ditch,is that you?")

Eric

[wa4jr]

HA, what a GREAT idea! Add a second taxi-landing combo to the right wing. Where can one go to get the materials? Are there packaged kits for 170 taxi-landing lights? Yes, the pulsing taxi lights are great, and greatly increase the lamp life of even the standard bulbs and reduce the overall electrical load. Good point about the pulsing on the ground. I would think that there is a two way switch in the cockpit to set the lights for steady or pulsing. I've never been able to catch Southwest on rollout to see if their lights go steady in the flare. I would think that the pulsing light during flare and rollout would be a real distractor. I can build the flasher circuit to go with the second landing light installation on the right wing...and everything will look "proper" to the nice FAA man. Now I'm thinking of adding a heavy duty electronic turn signal flasher in the NAV light circuit to mimic the original flashing NAV light option. Has anyone done this mod?

[funseventy]

No sense in making a science project out of the pulselight, the guy advertising in the flyer is only asking $150. Its super easy to install, it takes about 10 minutes. It is set up so when you turn it on it flashes, hten when you turn on you normal landing light switch it goes steady on its own. Subsequently, when you turn off your landing light it goes back to flashing. The guy is just an average Joe and very easy to deal with. I f you and a buddy want to buy at the same time he will negotiate down quite a bit.
George would know better than I, but I don't think you want to go back to the flashing nav lights. Nobody sells that unit and it is because the regs have changed and they no longer want that out there. The ones that still work are grandfathered, but I would worry a little about making a homebrew unit. You could be asking for trouble.

Kelly A&P, IA

[wa4jr]

I guess I missed something in the flyer....I suppose you mean the Flypaper? I went back and looked at the December Flypaper, and I do not see anyone selling a pulser unit. Would you please fill me in? I like the operating arrangement of going steady when the landing light is brought on. As for the flashing NAV lights, just a thought. I still see some of Delta's 727s running around with the flashing NAV lights, as well as a DC-3 here and there.

[zero.one.victor]

GA News & Flyer,aka Western Flyer,aka General Aviation News--a twice a month newspaper published in Tacoma Washington. Their "pink pages" classifed seem to be mainly from the western states.It's a pretty good publication,I subscribe,it's $35 a year. http://www.generalaviationnews.com
I just looked thru the latest issue & I can't find the ad for the pulsing landing light. I know I've seen it there in the past,probably in trade a plane also.

Eric

[futr_alaskaflyer]

Thought I'd revive an old thread rather than start a new one.

My new bird has a 25 amp generator. While the possibility might exist to upgrade, for this Franklin engine (to quote someone from the Stinson discussion group) "it ain't easy."

I'd like to install a Precise Flight or other pulselight system to blink the taxi and landing light alternately. My concern is if I would have enough amps to operate the lights on a sustained basis, on top of two radios, a transponder, nav lights, audio panel, single strobe, a future upgrade to an electric turn coordinator...and maybe wingtip strobes too.

(Flying into Anchorage during the summer already gave me the heeby jeebies (and this from someone who used to regularly fly over the Grand Canyon to Vegas, Phoenix) but the recent crash up here just reinforced the point that we all should be lit like a Christmas tree when in high density areas.)

What do y'all think? Any more juice to be squeezed out of the thing?

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I just recently put an alternator and strobes on my plane, it cost a pretty penny but I wouldn't give them up now even if I could have my money back. I had a 35amp generator, and it couldn't handle the landing lights, Nav lights, 1 radio, transponder, and instrument lights unless it was at full throttle. You might think about doing strobes instead of running the landing light as they don't suck up as much amperage. I got the Whelen strobes (2xA650 for the wingtips they fit in the Grimes E type bracket, 1xA500 tail position strobe replaces the factory position lamp in the rudder has both a position lamp and a seperate strobe in the same housing) and the Whelen power supply that does the triple flash. They are painfully bright, and that triple flash really does get your attention. If you do the math I don't think the 25amp gen is going to keep up with all your electrics and the landing light as well, it'll work in the pattern, but not if you leave it on all the time. Strobes on the other hand draw a lot less current, you could leave them on for the whole flight without pulling your battery down.

There's also Aeroflash, I've heard good things about them, but they aren't as bright (I think it was 14 joules vs 22 joules with the Whelens) they do however make a wingtip kit that mounts the power supplies under the wingtip, and they are pretty affordable ~$300 for the set, they would be way better than nothing.

The local flight school runs pulse landing lights on all their planes, they're great, but you only see them from the front and I think the strobes catch my attention more.

[GAHorn]

The question being asked requires a load analysis on your airplane. Total continuous electrical demand should be no more than 80% of total generated electrical power.
Ordinarily landing/taxi lights are not continuous, but in this scenario they might be. The GE 4509 bulb is a 100 watt bulb. 100watts/14volts is about 7amps. Typical txpdr is 1A. Encoder another 1A. Comm radio is 2A. Nav radio is 1A. Nav lights total is about 4A. Interior lighting another 1A. Wingtip strobes 8A. Audio pnl 1A. T&B 1A. That's 27 Amps as I calculate. You'd need a 35A gen/reg set up to meet the 80% rule.

Keep in mind that just because you have a 35A generator...you may not be capable of generating 35A. The regulator must also be a 35 A regulator. (A 25 A reg used with a 35 A gen will only produce 25A because that's all the reg is capable of. No harm done...just max power not produced. A 35A reg used with a 25A generator...will burn up the generator, because it'll recognize the demand for more power and keep requesting 35A from the undersized gen.) In other words, the gen and reg should be properly matched.
If your gen is not meeting the total load analysis of your appliances by keeping your battery fully charged then you should investigate the reason. If it's due to mismatched gen/reg...that's an easy fix. If it's due to undersized gen/reg that's also an easy fix....usually. (The 35A gen setup requires dampened crank.)
The alternator conversion also requires a dampened crank. Alternators have an advantage over gens in that they weigh less, and produce rated amps at lower rpms. The latter is not usually as serious a problem as some folks imagine, however. It's not common for us to sit at idle in long lines of traffic with all the lights on including land/taxi lights. Inflight, sufficient engine rpm exists to support maximum amps for a healthy generator system.
Another difference is the price: Alternator conversions cost $700-$900 and upgrades to 35A gen is ususally only a fraction of that. The weight penalty is somewhat offset by the gens ability to "hand prop" an engine and recharge the battery without needing a "jump" from a good battery that the alternator requires.

The "pulse-light" mod may have a different equation with regard to "continuous" electrical demand, and the total load analysis may change as a result of that mod. Personally, I am confident my wingtip strobes are sufficiently bright to get the attention of another aircraft that is flying "head-on" to me (the primary area influenced by pulselights being the head-on area), so with my 3 radios, nav lights and strobes are well within the elect. load matched by my 35A gen system. I do temporarily turn on my taxi light when approaching another airplane who is looking for me, until I see him flash his taxi light or otherwise acknowlege me "in sight".

I'd add that a taxi light, flashing ON/OFF is just as effective as alternating/pulsing land/taxi lights, but uses only half the electrical power. It'd be a simple thing to have a taxi light fed by a simply flasher-unit. Gives me an idea for an STC or field approval. (Or does this meet the "minor alteration" rule?)

[Bill Hart]

I don’t know. The idea of moving one of the landing lights to the right wing and having them pulse like the G550’s I see every day sounds cool to me. You know, if you are in it for the cool points.

[5777c]

For several years I was a Chief Pilot for a commuter airline operating out of Anchorage Intl. During that time there were several incident reports hit my desk from pilots who had close calls with other aircraft within the airport area. Usually these near misses were driven by pilots approaching from the South and shortcutting the corner for nearby Lake Hood. Which in turn placed the inbound aircraft directly on the departure path for ANC Rwy 07L&R. In response, we had a pulselite sytem installed in each Dash 8. In short, the incident reports stopped. My two cents "PULSELITE's WORK". The system allowed the pilot to select any combination he/she wished via two three position switches. Bulb replacement on the Dash's reduced by about 30%.

I bought my 170-A with a landing/taxi light installed on each wing and love it. I am definately going to install a pulselite system ASAP. I have a 60 amp alternator so I don't thinks electrical load should be much of a factor. I don't subscribe to knee jerk reactions to every aircraft accident. But in light of the terrible midair crash which took place this past weekend you just can't say "it won't happen to me". That and I guess this accident hit a little closer to home (10 south). My daughter and I were fueling up for a fun flight when we learned of the accident. I just taxied back and put the plane away for the day.

[n2582d]

Back around '95 I bored holes in the LA smog with PT6 powered Beech 18s. (We were dropping sterile medflys for the USDA). These planes had the pulselites on them. We also painted the wingtips and rudders dayglo orange. These preventative measures seemed to help although we still had the occassional "$#&@ that was close!"

I just called RMD. They have wingtip recognition lights that are STCed for the 170. http://www.rmdaircraft.com/cessna.htm The price is $1345. It is available with three different bulbs--the regular 4509 (110,00 c.p.), the halogen bulb (100,000 c.p. "but seems brighter than the 4509 and lasts 2-300 hours--3-5 times as long as the 4509"), or the H.I.D. bulb for an extra $495 per bulb. Th H.I.D. will last forever and puts out an amazing 600,000 c.p. 12 volt/35 watt/2.9 amp. They have two styles of wingtips. One has the position light inside the faired plexiglass light housing. This is recommended for floatplanes so the position light/strobe doesn't get snagged on brush. The downside is that the strobe lights cannot be seen from the rear. The other style wingtip has the position light mounted externally. This allows for a strobe light that can be seen from the rear.

Preciselite offers the STCed 1220/2410-2 pulselite kit for $595. http://www.preciseflight.com/4071_1.html This would hook up to you existing landing light. They also offer H.I.D. bulbs to replace your existing 4509 bulbs. While their STC list for this bulb replacement includes every variety of C-172 and even C-175 I did not see the C-170 on the their STC list. You can also buy the RMD wingtips with HID bulbs from Preciseflight for $2345--about the same cost as from RMD.

Now let's see, if I add a landing light on the right wing, replace the four landing/taxi lights with H.I.D. bulbs, add RMD wingtips and Whelen comet flash strobes... . That would be about 3,600,000 C.P. with six lights and just short of $6000! I could take up cropdusting at night to pay for it.

[lowNslow]

It seems a collision avoidance system would be a better choice than all these lights. Most of the strobe lights used on small GA aircraft are not very effective in daylight and the flashing landing lights are uni-directional. Portable systems are available from $500-1500.