My aircraft fleet in the air

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Went to Grimes in Bethel PA for the Golden Age Air Museum Fall Fly-in. I quite often have both my airplanes there with a friend flying either the 170 or the Cub. This weekend good friend Dan Mitten flew the Cub with other friends Greg McKnight and Buck Franke in their Cubs to Grimes.

On the way home for a few moments I formed up behind Dan who was flying my Cub and Greg in his in an echelon right formation. Greg snapped this shot and somehow we managed to stay in formation behind him as his attention and hands were on the camera.

Fleet.jpg

Actually we were about 4 times farther away from Greg than I am to Dan so it wasn't such a big deal no one was flying the lead aircraft.

Greg's got a A65 powered award winning Cub. Actually a TG-8 glider converted to a Cub and he's pushing pretty hard at about 80 mph. Dan is trying really hard to stay behind him as my Clipped Wing Cub will do about 100 easily and blow right by a standard Cub. As you can see I've got 20 degrees of flaps hanging out and throttled way back.

[jrenwick]

Beautiful photo, Bruce! I often fly my 170 with friends in Cubs, and I do the same thing -- a little bit of flaps and throttle way back to stay with them.

John

[GAHorn]

Very nice! (I did happen to notice you deployed flaps on that reddish one in order to stay behind with that greenish one.)

[170C]

Good photo Bruce! I don't know what to say to George regarding the RED/GREEN thing He never would come up to GPM to test out his red with Joe Harris' green one.

[GAHorn]

Good photo Bruce! I don't know what to say to George regarding the RED/GREEN thing He never would come up to GPM to test out his red with Joe Harris' green one.

Truth be known...Joe and I actually discussed it and decided it was much more fun to keep the discussion alive than to be disappointed in any potential results. The funniest thing about it was that after we both, to our mutual surprise, admitted to each other whose airplane we thought would likely win any race... we reversed ourselves and continued the slander.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

This Clipped Wing Cub will go 1 mph for every horse power easily. My 170 won't. In fact the fastest plane in mph verses hp was the stock yellow J3 photo plane which was achieving about 1.2 mph for every horse power,

[flyguy]

Never got any pictures of "it" but the BL65 T-Craft (in which I started learning to fly ) would true out 90 at 5500msl. One pax and light on gas it took about 15 minutes to that altitude and trimming on-step took 10 minutes to max airspeed, and assuming the as indicator was accurate, it came out to a whopping ratio of 1.4 mph to 1hp! Funny thing was - - that put the T-Craft very near VNE in level flight ! ! !

bl65 Tee.jpg

[GAHorn]

This Clipped Wing Cub will go 1 mph for every horse power easily. My 170 won't. In fact the fastest plane in mph verses hp was the stock yellow J3 photo plane which was achieving about 1.2 mph for every horse power,

Ah-contrere, dear Bruce! A standard 170 only makes about 118 hp at takeoff and very rarely will produce more than 122 ( 2500 rpm w/std prop, according to the power curves found in the Operator's Handbook.) So if your 170 trues out 104 kts (119.6 mph) then you're doing similar performance.

[jrenwick]

I think Bruce was talking about the "nominal" horsepower, which, for a C90, is 90, and a C145 is 145HP.

As for the T-craft BL65, I can confirm what OL GAR said. I used to fly one of those, and it would cruise at 90. That Lycoming was about as anemic as they come, and I'll bet the same T-craft with a Continental 65 would go a little bit faster even! Maybe even make 1.5!

[flyguy]

Ah-contrere, dear Bruce! A standard 170 only makes about 118 hp at takeoff and very rarely will produce more than 122 ( 2500 rpm w/std prop, according to the power curves found in the Operator's Handbook.) So if your 170 trues out 104 kts (119.6 mph) then you're doing similar performance.

HAY GOERGEIE BOY - -DOANT GO TO A GUNFITE WITH A PARING NIFE........... FIRSTOFF URE MATH IS SUIKIN AYRE AN IFN URE HOLDIN ONTU THEM ACTYAL FIGGERS FER c145 - - U GOTTA GIVE THE SAME HANDYCAP TU THE 65 OR 85 HP MOTORS TU. THAT FORMULA URA USIN MEENS THE 65HP ONLIE MAKIN 52 HP SO THAT MAKEIT LOTS BETTER HP TU VELOCITY - - LAK 1 DOT 7 :roll:AN IFN U GONNA USE BIGNFANCIE WORDS GITCHER SPELLIN RITE - - -LAK DIS SAMPEL
au contraire mon fraire

[jrenwick]

au contraire mon fraire

I think you meant au contraire mon frere, but then I probly didn't need to tell a Loosiana boy that, did I????

[W.J.Langholz]

If the Cub uses as much oil as the 170........humm....somewhere north of $24 bucks per hour.....fill it up with oil and check the gas.

I'm just jealous

Very nice picture and I am happy for you Bruce


W.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

What I meant was at red line or the rated hp for each engine on each airframe. The A65 in the stock Cub red lines at 2300 where it's rated at 65hp and it'll push 80 mph. My Clipped Wing C-85 red lines at 2600 rpm were it is rated at 85 hp but mine has the 0200 crank and is said to be producing closer to 100hp. It will do 100-105mp at red line. My 170 even with a 54 pitch prop at 2700 rpm will not do 145 mp. And I'm talking 800 ft msl level flight here not some high altitude like 2000 ft msl or in a dive.

The Cubs are not particularly aerodynamic. Which is why T-Crafts, Champs and Luscombes are faster with the same A-65. And that is one reason people clipped the Cub and that Piper started building the short wing Piper series.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

W the Cub never leaked oil and now the 170 still isn't leaking. Yes I'm very lucky to be able to have both but probably in the end very foolish as well.

Oh well you can't take it with you when you die can you.

[GAHorn]

au contraire mon fraire

I think you meant au contraire mon frere, but then I probly didn't need to tell a Loosiana boy that, did I????

In TEXAS it's "ah contrere" .... Yew awwwllll! (And I ain't takin' spellin' lessons from either YOU ....OR Bruce!