Apparently this one doesn't know much about it...he's just enjoying himself...
1- Helping the pilot determine if the area is safe for engine-start. (Look for passersby, vehicles, objects (like the AvFuel sign they almost blow away....)
2- Have a FIRE EXTINGUISHER on-hand in case of a flooded-engine-fire (easily done with many radials...and cold weather starts in Cessna 170's, too!)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
gahorn wrote:2- Have a FIRE EXTINGUISHER on-hand in case of a flooded-engine-fire (easily done with many radials...and cold weather starts in Cessna 170's, too!)
What's he going to do with a fire extinguisher there? See how high those engines are off the ground in that plane? Extinguisher would be about useless in that situation.
Totally agree on what the observer's job is, but in this case, from the wavering trees in the far background, the wing wobble on takeoff, and noise in the microphone, it was a pretty windy day, and the sign could have been wobbling anyway. The sign appears to start wobbling with the start of #2, but appears to be stable just before starting #1, then wobbled again. In fact, if you look close you can see the sign wobble a bit just before the first engine (#2) catches. It may just be an error in perspective, but it appears the sign is high enough to be out of the propwash, and I wouldn't think propwash on the pole would cause that much movement.
Even if the sign is in the propwash, it didn't "walk" into that position, so it might be considered the PIC's job to see that the airplane is positioned to avoid objects that can't be moved easily.
Miles
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
It appeared to me that the PIC was already in the cockpit as the aircraft was moved to the starting position, so he may have been unaware of his blast-area. Regardless, it was a poorly selected area for large aircraft starts.
A fire extinguisher should be selected which is appropriate for the job at hand. If it's a large airplane such as this one...it should me more than a simple hand-held extinguisher.... a wheeled-cart-unit with extension-hose at the least...a small fire-truck nearby if that is insufficient.
Turbine engines and aircraft with engine extinguishers have resulted in a loss-of-memory for what observers are supposed to be "observing".
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
gahorn wrote:A fire extinguisher should be selected which is appropriate for the job at hand. If it's a large airplane such as this one...it should me more than a simple hand-held extinguisher.... a wheeled-cart-unit with extension-hose at the least...a small fire-truck nearby if that is insufficient.
I'm just saying you'd need a pretty bloody long extension horn to do any good on that particular airframe. The only places I've seen such horns were on ships.
I did find the start of the left engine interesting. The prop cycles until about the point where you would be switching on the mags for the -1830, and it stops (like he took his finger off the starter). Then all of the sudden it fires and seems to run solid. Not the usual start I'm used to seeing in the old radials.
Fearless Tower wrote:...I'm just saying you'd need a pretty bloody long extension horn to do any good on that particular airframe. The only places I've seen such horns were on ships......
Have you never seen a liquid-halon extinguisher work? They shoot a stream about 20-feet...it can be controlled as fog or as narrow-stream with the nozzle....which is pretty effective for such work.
Regardless.... IT'S THE OBSERVERS JOB TO BE PREPARED FOR AN ENGINE FIRE WHEN STARTING ENGINES... he wasn't....and that's what I'm just saying.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
gahorn wrote:.............. A fire extinguisher should be selected which is appropriate for the job at hand. If it's a large airplane such as this one...it should me more than a simple hand-held extinguisher.... a wheeled-cart-unit with extension-hose at the least...a small fire-truck nearby if that is insufficient............
So George, where should the observer, wheeled cart, or small fire truck be placed for this start?
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
Funny! I've been fooling around with airplanes for seventy years and didn't know what in hell you guys were talking about when you referred to "observers". I've always heard them called "Fire Guards".
In the Air Force, an "Observer" was a rated flight crew member.
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