Different Flight Characteristics of the Rag wing and 170A

[lovetaildraggers]

Can someone tell me what the different flight characteristics are between the 170 rag wing and the 170A. I know the rag wing has smaller flaps but they shure are long. Whant about payload, cuise speed. etc. And what about VG's on a rag wing?

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Payload cruise and just about anything else I can think of will not be dependent on whether it is a Rag Wing or an A model and in fact even a B model, but on the individual airframe, engine and prop.

The flaps on the Rag wing are said to be fairly ineffective. Of course the same is said of the A model. There is no doubt both are less effective than the B model. But flaps are not the determining factor on any limit of each of the airframes but the ability of the pilot is.

My first 170 would have been a rag wing had it not been for a health issue. I eventually bought what essentially was a B model. I now own an A model. i'd buy the best example 170 and what ever model it happened to be so be it.

VGs are now available for the rag wing from Micro Aerodynamics.

[blueldr]

I have flown all three C-170 types and I would consider the C-170 and the C-170A quite similar. The C-170 B is a definitely different airplane.

[lovetaildraggers]

thats all good info. Thanks

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The biggest difference I see between the B and the other models is the technique used for various parts of flight. Most notably landing. With the B you can pull all 40 degrees of flaps and point the noise way down and if will barely pick up speed. You shouldn't slip a B with full flaps because your likely to stall the elevator and you will find the nose pointing straight down but there is really no need to slip the B with flaps deployed. Flying the rag wing or the A the pilot is more likely to slip to accomplish what the B model pilot does with flaps.

[3958v]

The other week I had a chance to fly a 170B for the first time after 1000+ hrs in my ragwing. Probably the biggest difference I noticed was the balanced elevator causing the elevator to be much more sensitive on landing. The flaps were also much more effective but as Bruce already mentioned I just slip my ragwing when I need to lose altitude on final. I have to admit that there are suttle improvements in the B but if I am ever looking for another 170 I will still be looking at the condition of the particular airplane more than the model of 170. I know a guy nearby with an A model so someday I might get a chance to fly that one too.

[GAHorn]

The ragwing has small, 140 type ailerons, and therefore a slightly slower roll rate.
Some pilots find the ragwing ailerons limiting in very strong cross winds.
I don't like to take off or land in crosswinds gusting more than 15 knots over
the base component anyway, even in my B model.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Bill is right, the elevator is balanced in the B and it might cause a Rag or A model guy to over control a bit. And if a B guy started flying a Rag or A they might wonder why the elevator feels heavy. The Rag and A model pilot probably is more attentive to adjusting and anticipating trim adjustments that the B pilot. But I never saw it as a limitation of the Rag or A model when compared to a B.

Next time Bill, we are together with the aircraft and have the time you are certainly welcome to log some A model time and as a bonus you get cross-wind gear time as well.

[GAHorn]

The ragwing also has a more distinctive stall as the result of it's square wing planform. It has a predictable buffet and clean break, while the metal winged
versions approach with a sodden shudder followed with a porpoising break.

[marathonrunner]

I flew an A model about 34 years ago to retrieve it for a friend. I remember putting the flaps down and then looking out the window to see if they were hooked up to the airplane...not real effective

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I flew an A model about 34 years ago to retrieve it for a friend. I remember putting the flaps down and then looking out the window to see if they were hooked up to the airplane...not real effective

Yes if your a B model guy and flying like a B model, they're not very effective compared to a B model. But compared to my Cub with no flaps the A model flaps are very effective.

In my mind you don't have to be as good a pilot flying the B because you can just though out those flaps and point the nose done. You don't have to be a super pilot to fly the smaller flap Rag and A models have either. You just have to be really really comfortable with a full rudder cross control slip to make up for the lack of prior planning and being to high or to fast on approach.

[marathonrunner]

I agree. I learned in a J-3 Cub and then went on to get some time in an Aeronca Sedan...another no flapper airplane. I really liked the Sedan very roomy inside. It was one of those planes though that you gave a control input and sort of waited for something to happen. It does slip very well though.

Merry Christmas